Our conclusion for this is that the power window motors do not have a ground at them to complete the circuit even when we put power directly to the motor. You are right the motor does not have its own ground. As Knut says there is NO fixed ground on the window motor so applying +12 volts to any or both of the motor wires will not do anything. To explain further, the window switch provides both the power and the ground for the motor and depending on whether you want the window to go up or down determines which wire of the motor gets + and which gets -. "...When we short the power pin on the power window switch connector to one of the pins that goes to the power window motor the motor still does not run (even though we know we are shorting power directly to the wire to the motor)..." When the switch is in the center position it is disconnected from the motor all together. As a DC motor it will change direction if the power is reversed. Look at the schematic and you'll see both wires from the motor go to the switch and none is grounded. You can test the motor and wiring by applying a + and a - (ground) to the wires of the motor. The Zilla schematic is better than the one in the manual, IMHO. If you still need more help let me know. Dave Delman D² & 6530 now with Color Organ and 2700 ohm resistor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: moderators@xxxxxxxxxxx For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:dmcnews-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx mailto:dmcnews-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dmcnews-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/