RE: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame

["timnagin" <timnagin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I should have added that had the original DMC been successful all of this
would be moot.  Anything that John De Lorean is looked down on now would be
heralded as pure genius and a risk taker that succeeded against all odds.
Hell, these internet groups and other websites probably wouldn't even exist.
Most of us probably wouldn't even have met each other.  Well, that last part
being a good thing is arguable. ;-)

 

Greg

 

 

 

  _____  

From: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
timnagin
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 8:18 PM
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame

 

While some behavior being moral or ethical is dependant on one's views,
requiring this of all people inducted in the automotive hall of fame would
eliminate all inductees and future inductees. In our current PC-correct
annoying world what is immoral and unethical now may not have been back
then. For example, CEO's traveling like John De Lorean did on the Concord
and living lavishly was a sign the company was doing well. These days that
is looked down upon as excessive. I don't think he was a saint, but he did
have a vision and now we are all sitting in it.

Several of the suppliers for GM were recently affected by their failings and
several people lost their jobs. Ford is experiencing similar events. Some
have even accused Ford of actively backing the gay community which some find
offensive and can fall into that "moral and ethical manner" you mentioned.
If Ford and GM are doing these things should anyone who was inducted that
worked for either company be de-listed from the hall of fame? Should Henry
Ford be removed?

The suppliers for DMC, as with any other company, are in it for the money.
There are no 100% guarantees in life and running a business and being
business owners they know that, as I am sure John De Lorean did as well.
With risk comes reward, hopefully, and they knew this entering into the
agreements. If you invest in something and it fails then tough shit for
you. I read about people going back and trying to sue the companies, and
where there is actual intentional fraud this is justified. Someone
investing for their own profit potential can be guilty of the same greed.
If they didn't fully understand what they were getting into and what the
risks could be then, again, tough shit. Who is more guilty of greed, the
one taking the investment in hopes of a large return or the one investing
the money for the same?

I wouldn't say John De Lorean did what he did knowing he would absolutely
never repay the investments; that would be a serious tactical failure. In
fact, I understand he spent a lot of personal money repaying some investors.
I also understand Fred Dellis, of Legend Industries, remained good friends
with him as well. Think about it, if he was only a con man and nothing more
then the one best way to ensure you will receive no other investments is to
screw the people who are investing in you. Being in the public eye as much
as he was would further ensure no more investments. ENRON is a completely
different matter, but it is interesting they and the original DMC were both
handled by the same accounting firm of Arthur Andersen, who was investigated
a few years ago for their business practices.

As for the drug acquittal, someone please correct me if I am wrong but I
understand he left a note stating he went to the meeting because of threats
against his family. I would think John De Lorean would be the only one to
know the absolute truth about this and, well, we will never know for sure.
In my opinion, his acquittal shows more about those trying to bring him
down.

Some people seem to think that taking down the competition is the best way
to ensure their survival, rather than actually innovating and succeeding
based on their product being superior. Have you seen the movie about
Preston Tucker, Tucker: The Man and His Dream? The parallels between him
and John De Lorean are astounding, even though they are separated by
thirty-five years.

As I understand it, people are Inducted for what they achieved, not screwed
up. The GTO and other innovations that he has patented, and the motoring
world uses every day, just as with Preston Tucker, should be enough to get
him in even if the DMC-12 is not.

As always, anyone please feel free to correct any of my facts.

Greg

_____ 

From: dmcnews@yahoogroups <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:dmcnews@yahoogroups <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of
Woody
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:15 AM
To: dmcnews@yahoogroups <mailto:dmcnews%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Subject: Re: [DML] Nominate JZD to the Automotive Hall of Fame

I'm on my second Delorean so I obviously like the car, feel it't very
innovative and give the credit to John Delorean for creating such a
unique car.

That said, I feel that special recognitiion should be reserved for
those that live their life and conducted their business in a that
deserves the acolades. . . those that not only are creative and
ambitious but live their live in a moral, ethical manner, that is, in a
manner that you would want to be treated by someone you dealt with
personally.

My comments which follow will get the ire of those who hold JZD in some
superhuman status that in my opinion he does not deserve.

Sure, he designed a very innovative car.

Sure, he had the ambition to make the car a reality.

He also led a lot of suppliers down a path that led them into bankrupcy
or business failure. He made promises he knew he could not keep. He
took advantage of honest, trusting individuals to get them to continue
to invest development funds (i.e., the turbo debacle) long after he
knew he could not pay. He misled investors and employees in a manner
that is reminicent of ENRON.

How would you like it if you believed in someone, invested your life
savings in their dream, only to find out they were using your money to
live a jetset lifestyle? Do you find it OK for someone to take your
life savings (or even your last paycheck) with a promise to repay when
in reality they knew they never would be able to do so? Doesn't that
make about as much sense as recognizing O.J. Simpson for his football
accomplishments without recognizing the wrongful death judgment for
murdering two people?

Let's stay in the real world. Let's recognize the accomplishments
associated with creating a new company to create a very innovative car
(even withit's flaws). At the same time let's not put our head up our
posterior when it comes to the flawed human traits that did
conscious,avoidable, unjustifiable, irrepable harm to a lot of
innocent, trusting individuals.

I'm always open to new points of view so I welcome responses that are
more than rationalizations of the acts of a creative, maniuplative,
clever con man. And, lets not use the acquital on the drug charges to
rationalize the ripoff of hundreds of suppliers. That's a logic jump
reserved for those under 2 years of age.

Woody 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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