I agree that 83's are not much different to judge than the other years . The only thing I think is a disadvantage is in the cleanliness catagory. Since it is undercoated it does not and will never look as spectacular as a clean undercarriage of a non undercoated one. That is why I brought the 170 mile 81 car to Houston. The disadvantage is that it is just not looked at as being as clean. This is the only thing I think is a disadvantage for the 83.(especially the white glove test LOL) Its not a matter of point deduction and there certainly is notning in the manual specifically to deduct points but it does give an overall impression of the car is not as clean. On the other hand (this moderator specifically) has stated my undercarriage is "Clean as a whistle" on one of the judging sheets. I have been told by other judges that it did distract from the judging since you cannot see things as well. Either way this is just something that IS a part of the car and I am more than happy with my 83 and have no intentions of changing that. SO if I don't get a point or two somewhere then that is the way it is. I do have one suggestion You want to know if the undercoating should be removed on 83 concours cars (NO leave it as is) I would write it that the undercoating needs to cover the metal components that it is intended to protect. But don't take off for overspray since every car is different. But do allow us to clean some of the overspray off to make the cars more presentable. It will give the 83's a better and more even chance. Again I love my 83 and would never discourage anyone from entering an 83. I have been 1/2 point from victory from Chris Smiths car so I am right there at the top. I just need to get shoved over. You will either love the way I cleaned my car or not It is quite dramatic from the last time you saw it. So this will be interesting. Ken To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: moderators@xxxxxxxxxxx For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dmcnews-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/