[Moderator Note: While tips for all car shows, including concours, are welcome on the DML, the merits of the Millenium concours standards are not. Yahoo Groups has a separate discussion forum dedicated to nothing but the Millenium concours, and everyone is welcome to participate. - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week] Certain liberties must be taken when determining the point in history at which to judge the cars. Generally it would be as sold by a Dealer. This could include some customization if it could be proved it was done BEFORE being accepted by the buyer. For other types of cars some dealers would do special paint jobs, add their own option kits, etc. Some are famous for their cars and are very sought after like the Mr Norm cars in the Chrysler world. If you wanted to judge a Delorean as shipped from the factory you would have to have the foam pads on the bumpers and I can't even guess what the clock would be set to if it was set at all. It makes a lot more sense to do it as a Dealer would have sold the car, they would set the air pressures in the tires, cleaned the car, make sure everything worked, etc. For Deloreans a problem is that the QAC centers did things and there is no documentation on it. For instance it is possible they could have replaced a damaged hood and not having any more with gas flaps they would have used one without a gas flap. Some cars have a radio interference label and some don't. Some have a QAC label and some don't. This makes it a lot harder for the judges. The "best" standard is to use the pre-delivery checklist and assume that every car was at least checked against it at the time of it's sale to the first owner. In any case your best chance of winning a concours is to follow the judging manual as closly as you can, that's what the judges do (whether you agree with it or not). David Teitelbaum vin 10757 -- > I am, by no means an authority on the Concours.. but I thought it was > supposed to be "as the cars left the factory", and not "as they are > about to be delivered". Plenty of things could happen to the von for any other relevant judging point. To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: moderators@xxxxxxxxxxx For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dmcnews-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/