[DML] Re: Carburator (David T)

["endotex23" <endotex23@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "content22207" <brobertson@xxxx> wrote: 

> Perhaps you meant to say "carburetion is tried and true technology"?<

Hmmm, it seems you and others are missing the point. EFI is far from
new and is also tried and true technology.

> True, carburetion does not meet everyone's needs. But for those of
> like mind (at least half a dozen on this List), it is a fool proof
and trouble free method of fuel delivery.<

What "needs" would those be? EFI is far more foolproof and reliable
than carburation. In fact anything electronic is more reliable than
mechanical devices. You remind me of the attitude of older pilots I
work with who originally balked at "glass cockpits" for the same
reason, yet they are the standard in every new airliner today. Any
engineer will tell you electronics are far more reliable and better at
doing the job than gears, pulleys, ect, if you get my drift. Ask
Airbus, Boeing, or any military contractor.

> I'm not interested in making my car "more advanced". I'm interested
in making it simple, reliable, and easy to maintain.<

It's your car but EFI *is* simple, more reliable, and easy to
maintain. In fact there is little to no required maintenace on it at
all. Clean the injectors every 100K mile or so and that's about it.
DIS makes cars even eaiser to maintain and more reliable. Btw, EFI
also starts at the touch of the key in any weather. It also idles and
runs better under all conditions.

Which brings me to another point you seem to be missing: Just because
a carburated car starts and runs doesn't mean it's doing so at peak
efficiency. Nor will it adapt to changing condtions, dynamically learn
to remap it's fuel trim, adjust for varying engine conditons or wear,
changes in the ambient, on and on. Carburation is "dumb", it's a
static system without ability to do anything on it's own other than
meter fuel based on one or two conditions, and poorly at that. 

Your point about cost isn't valid either. Carbs are not cheap to
rebuild andthey do require rebuilding whereas EFI doesn't. And EFI
will easily recoup it's cost in fuel savings alone, not to mention
less maintenance. It's also more adaptable to modification. My daily
driver is a MK IV twin turboed Toyota Supra that makes nearly 700 rwhp
from only increased boost and EFI mods. Nor is EFI untested
technology. Prior to that I had a 1987 MK III Supra that went 180,000
miles with zero EFI problems. It's still running strong the last I
heard. That car was only 5 years older than a Delorean when new and
had OBD I on it. I never had a single fault code or EFI problem in all
the years I owned it. Simple to deal with yet still a marvel of EFI
engineering. The common argument that any car 18 or 20 years old will
have lots of problems is a myth as long as it's well designed,
constructed, and maintained.

Your may consdier your older Fords to be be proof of this but you have
to put in more time, money, and effort to keep them there than an
"electronic" car.  Not to mention their poor emissions and lack of
diagnostic abilities. OBD I cars are simple to work on and OBD II
isn't much more difficult. You don't need a scanner for OBD I and the
cost for a simple scanner for OBD II is more than offset by it's
ability to speed diagnosis in the rare event it's needed. Besides, no
one is saying a Delorean needs to have an OBD II level of engine
control. It'd be nice but why would you want it when something like
the MegaSquirt is so open and easy to understand? Especially if you're
the one installing it? You'll know it inside and out by the time
you're done.

> - Low PSI fuel pump IS in the tank ($12.99). A cartridge fuel filter
> IS in the engine compartment ($1.99). Rubber fuel lines DO connect
> them ($.99 per foot), held tight by band clamps ($.50 each). And I
DO have an air filter ($2.99).<

So what? The high pressure pump on most EFI cars is in the tank too.
Neither it nor any of the items (except the air filter) you quote 
ever needed replacing on either of my Supras, nor do they on a modern
car. Material science (elastomers, fule filter media, etc) has come a
long way yet you curiously tout older technology as being superior.
Btw, if by "band clamps" you're refering to screw band clamps, they're
the poorest form of hose retention technology you can use. Harder on
the hose too. 

> Note also that I have none of the running issues that keep popping
up on this List:<

Every one of those problems is the fault of the owner or his mechanic
in resolving them, not the systems. A properly operating K Jet and CIS
 will have none of those issues and EFI certainly won't. And I'd
hardly call replacing a more advanced technology with an older one
simply because of an inability to repair it a step forward.

> Engine vacuum itself draws fuel through the venturi, so metering
> always matches throttle setting.<

You must be joking. Do you honestly believe EFI metering is inferior
to venturi metering? As a side note, one of the advantages of the K
Jet's continuous injection is the injectors can be individually flow
tuned to provide exactly the same charge irrespective of the car not
having a tuned induction system. It's done all the time in aviation
for very good reasons: better power, throttle response, and fuel
efficiency. EFI can't do this but it's moot anyway, it's metering is
vastly superior to carburation due to it's ability to trim on the fly
under changing conditons, both within the engine and in the ambient
environment.

> What I find quaint is the reverence paid to "modern" cars,
especially considering no one hangs onto one of them for more than 5
years or so.<

No one hangs onto them? Really? I see them around everyday. What do
you think happens to all those $40K Lexuses, etc, after people trade
them in? Do you think they end up in the crusher? And as I said, my
former, earlier model of Supra is not only still running strong but is
a much sought after by performance enthusiasts, as are many other
"new" cars. It's 18 yers old now.

I realize I'm unlikely to change your mind but your attitude is based
on ignorance and an unfamiliarity with technology which, of course,
breeds contempt for it. Others need to know the facts and they aren't
anywhere near what you claim. If you want to live in the stone age
it's your choice but to say carburation has merits over EFI is wrong
in every sense. It's a giant step backwards in every respect, even
compared to the K Jet.

Greg


 











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