There are no wrong answers here by anyone in this debate! But just to make sure that everyone here is understanding about the the benefits, and myths of the the purpose of the Self Bleeding kit, let me put everything into perspective for those who are still wondering if they should buy the kit, and just what does it really do? As everyone can already guess, the purpose of the Self Bleeder Kit is to automaticly remove any air bubbles that will get trapped in the cooling system whenever it is freshly filled with coolant. Now this may not sound like much, but when you have 18 feet of cooling hoses and pipes to fill, you'll quickly realize that bleeding the system is no easy task. On a traditional front engine car, there are typicly only two high points in the cooling system: The Thermostat housing, and the radiator cap. Compared with the DeLorean of course, which routes hoses up and down throughout the entire car. So bleeding the system is no easy task. On other cars, the process is usually fairly easy: Remove the bleeder screw/plug, fill with coolant until it runs out of the housing, replace the screw/plug, and then top-off the radiator. DeLoreans are not quite so easy. When you've got hoses that have highpoints in both the front, and rear of the car, you need water pressure to push those bubbles back to the thermostat housing, where you can get them out of the system. And this presents two unique problems: 1. when you are bleeding the system, you're taking out coolant. If you drain out too much all at one time, the Expansion Tank will become empty, and when it becomes empty, you'll suck bubbles back into the system, and need to start all over again. 2. It can be a messy process. You've got to collect coolant in a clean bucket, and then return it back into the system. But you can't pop the radiator cap until the engine is cool. Otherwise you'll get the same problem that you'd have if you tried to remove the radiator cap while running the car to try and return the coolant directly back into the system. The engine heats up, opens the thermostat, and will blow out coolant that you just added back in. So when you have something as simple as the Self Bleeder installed, it makes you're job much easier, and quicker. Even my mechanic states that to fully bleed, and purge the system of all air, they budget in a full hour for the DeLorean, unlike other cars. With the Bleeder Kit installed, All I do is this: 1. Fill the system up with coolant. 2. Squeeze both hoses on either side of the Water Pump until air bubbles no longer appear in the Expansion Tank. 3. Turn the heater all the way up, and run the motor until the motor has heated up a little past the 2nd white line. 4. Kill the engine, wait for the motor to cool down, and top off the level in the expansion tank if nessisary. That's it. But there is another little fact that I didn't realize until I started to break out my various manuals to research things for this post. Not only does the Volvo 760 with the PRV V6 engine follow these exact same instructions for bleeding, but the car even comes with the same exact hose setup from the Self Bleeder Kit! Except, Volvo calls this a "Vent Hose". In addition, the thermostat housing does NOT have a bleeder screw assembly like the DeLorean. The Vent Hose, just like the Self Bleeder hose takes care of the air removal from the Cooling System. And both are mounted to the highest points on of the cooling system to bleed the air out. So if Volvo, who used the exact same engine, and positive pressure cooling system on their cars deemed this kind of a set up nessisary enough to install on their own production cars, then obviously there is something here that DeLoreans should consider, if not follow suit entirely. HOWEVER, EVERY ONE HERE SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF SOMETHING! David Teitelbaum is exactly correct when he says that the Self Bleeder Kit should *NOT* be used and treated as the end-all, be-all solution for overheating problems. If your car is constantly over heating and/or you have to keep adding coolant in at ANY interval, then you have a cooling system problem that MUST be fixed! Aside from the unessisary expenses of paying for additional coolant, there are of course the enviornmental issues, as well as poison issues for animals. But specificly, lets take a look at the damage you will cause to your car. All these senarios will also involve you overheating the motor because you forgot to fill it up with coolant, and thus become stranded, and possibly having a blown motor; Best case senario, you've got a leaky hose, or pipe under the car. Here you'll have corroded pipes (antifreeze trapped between the rubber hose and pipe will rot the aluminium), possible frame damage, stained garage floor. A bit worse, you have a leaky hose behind the water pump. This will then cause the expose coolant to become corrosive, and can start eating a hole thru the aluminium engine block, slowly, but surely. Worst case of all, you've got a leaky head gasket, and end up running water thru the engine, and rust it from the inside out. None of these problems are simple ones, and the replacement costs for the damage done in all senarios is far more expensive than the the fees involved to repair the original issues to prevent the consequences. So in the end, I myself would consider the Self Bleeder Hose a nessisary upgrade for the car. You may not *technicly* need it if you choose to bleed the system the "old fashioned" way. But if there is a better mousetrap available, why not use it? BUT, more importantly, properly testing, and verifying that your cooling system is in proper working, and DEPENABLE order is indeed far more important. The Self Bleeder hose should be regared as more of a tool in helping you maintain your car, rather than a fix for it. But I'd still reccomend it to everyone on the list here. -Robert vin 6585 "X" --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty@xxxx> wrote: > Just because a person isn't handy with tools doesn't mean they > shouldn't understand the consequences of their decisions. If people > choose to install the bleeder kit they must understand that it is > really only a band-aid, the underlying problem still remains and will > probably get worse. If an owner isn't handy (and many aren't) there > are still ways to get the leaks fixed. As for getting stuck the best > way to make sure it won't happen is to fix the car the right way in > the first place! People that ignore symptoms and never go to the > doctor aren't making good decisions, by time you are "carried in" it > is usually much harder to treat, costs more, and takes longer. Same > goes for your Delorean. If you think it is expensive to maintain the > cooling system find out what it will cost when you overheat your > engine and have to rebuild it. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound > of cure besides many of us that are "handy" enjoy working on the car, > it's paying for the parts that we don't always enjoy. > David Teitelbaum > vin 10757 > > > > --- In dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dherv10@xxxx wrote: > > David, I will agree with you to a certain extent. But, Everyone > isn't as good > > with tools and bleeding as you and I are and some don't like messing > with > > wrenches at all. > > This is like the Hot Start relay, when DMC Joe jumped on me because > of