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There are 18 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Emissions Test
From: Mark Noeltner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
2. Re: Porsche engines in a DeLorean
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
3. Struts
From: "paulus260572" <paulus29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
4. Brake servo
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
5. Re: Emissions Test Exemptions
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
6. Re: What to do?
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxxxxxx>
7. Re: Water pump woes
From: "dmcman82" <srubano@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
8. Re: Water pump and related
From: njp548@xxxxxxx
9. Re: Struts
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
10. Re: Water pump woes
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
11. Porsche engines in a DeLorean...American subculture
From: Senatorpack@xxxxxx
12. Interior Mirrors - - Where the H#@?
From: "stevepeck1" <stevepeck1@xxxxxxxxx>
13. Axle thunking-FIXED
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
14. Re: Water pump and related
From: "dherv10" <dherv10@xxxxxxx>
15. Over heat protector questions.
From: "Adam Price" <acprice1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
16. Re: Water pump woes
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
17. RE: water pump woes
From: "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
18. Headlight switch, Exterior mirror switch fixes.
From: "stevepeck1" <stevepeck1@xxxxxxxxx>
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:06:31 -0700
From: Mark Noeltner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Emissions Test
It varies. In Utah, the vehicle has to be a 1967 or older model to be
exempt. Anything 1968 or newer has to be tested. And I don't think it's a
sliding scale. I think that dividing line stays right there at the 67/68
models.
Mine passed without doing anything special to it. I think if the car is
running well it should pass without any problems.
Mark N
VIN 6820
At 04:06 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>shoudn't our cars be exempt from emissions testing now that they are 20
>years old?
>
>Tom Watkins
>#005732
>
>http://www.geocities.com/outatime81
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:30:42 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Porsche engines in a DeLorean
This thread started as a feasability issue and has somehow wandered
from "it can or can't be done" issue into a "costs too much" issue.
While I do not ever remember a discussion in which someone wanted to
install a Porsche engine in a Delorean to save money, I would agree
that a Porsche engine would cost more to maintain than the PRV. The
reason to consider the Porsche engine swap would be to increase the
performance of the Delorean with additional HP, which it would do.
A Porsche engine would also be a logical option if considering a
Porsche transmission (such as Walt is considering), but again this is
not primarily a cost issue. Even the Northstar V8 conversion that is
available from ACE Engine Conversions does not exactly come in at a
"low cost" price, with a total conversion price of $20,000.
If the discussion is to do an engine swap to increase performance(HP),
with minimum irreversable modifications to the Delorean engine bay as
possible, then the Porsche or Northstar engines are an option. Other
similar options can include the Rover V8 (Bob Brandys) or the Delorean
AMC Eagle hybrid engine (Marty Maier and others). These two options
tow the line closer to the european and PRV heritage of the Delorean,
however, I would not refer to any of them as "low cost" options.
Duke's Chevy 4.3L V6 conversion may border on a low cost engine swap,
before you figure in all the development time spent troubleshooting
everything from electrical gremlins to transmission issues.
I personally have had mostly good experiences with Porsche drivetrains
and I do agree that some bad experiences have been expensive. I do
think that if someone wanted to keep a somewhat european heritage in
their Delorean, while increasing the performance and HP, the Porsche
drivetrain should be considered. Of course, I cannot speak to the
durability and yearly maintenance costs of this drivetrain in a "D"
until I complete my conversion and begin using it as a daily driver.
Even Matthew agrees that his 944 has been a durable daily driver.
Later,
Rich W.
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "Matthew P. Olans" <mpolans@xxxx> wrote:
> IMHO: this is a BAD idea,
> I have a 1984 944. The 2.5L inline 4 puts out 150 hp
reliably. I
> have a K&N ram-air setup with a slightly bigger throttle body and
mass air
> flow sensor. I am seeing 161 hp on the dyno. It's great in a front
> engine/rear drive 50/50 weight bias car. Let it be noted that I
just turned
> 190,000 miles and I still get 33mpg if I am very gentle. I usually
like to
> drop the hammer (a 4 cyl. hammer-drop is akin to using the gas pedal
like an
> on/off switch....:) ) and I see about 24-26 mpg. Overall it sounds
great,
> right?
>
> So here's my two cents on why it's not a good idea for the D:
> Money! Everyone seems hell-bent on saving by cross-referencing
parts and
> working new ones into the mix. Going with a Porsche engine won't
save you
> any money.
>snip<
> Matthew
> VIN #10365
> VIN #16816
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:04:10 -0000
From: "paulus260572" <paulus29@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Struts
hello All.
Can anyone in the uk tell me what other cars has the rear gas struts
for the D?
The louvre struts?
Cheers Paul.
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:43:08 -0000
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Brake servo
Hi all
Quick question.
Is the a X-ref part for the Vacuum brake servo #105542 not sure if mine is
functioning 100%.
It may just need new seal, how every my local scrappy has 200 cars and if
there is and X-ref I could probably get one for a fiver.
Cheers
Paul
#6463
www.paul.salsbury.btinternet.co.uk
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:33:37 -0000
From: "jtrealtywebspannet" <jtrealty@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Emissions Test Exemptions
Not only does testing vary State to State but the way you register the
vehicle is important. In many states there are special catogories that
are exempt from testing such as Historic, Collector, or Limited
Use-Special use. If you can live with the limitations such special
catogories impose (like a limited # of miles per year) not only are
you exempt from emissions testing but the insurance is substantaily
lower. You must contact the Motor Vehicle Agency of the State in which
you reside and or will register the vehicle in to learn all of the
options available. Just because a car is over 20 years old doesn't
automatically exempt it from anything as it is still required to meet
the emissions and safety tests that were in effect at the time of
manufacture.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "gr8old1" <Gr8old1@xxxx> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews@xxxx, Watkins Family <watbmv@xxxx> wrote:
> > shoudn't our cars be exempt from emissions testing now that they
> are 20
> > years old?
> >
> > Tom Watkins
> > #005732
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/outatime81
>
> That's going to vary from state to state... I know that in CT,
exempt
> vehicles are 25 years or older.
>
> -Jeff Chabotte
> Webmaster: http://www.88-mph.com
> Norwich, CT.
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:26:45 -0500
From: Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: What to do?
Interesting, my first question is:
How would one distinguish if one has a volvo replacement or the original
DMC PRV?
I also had a wacky vacuum setup, but I attribute that to idiocy, not
necessary a changed engine....
Jim 1537
On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:19:37 +0000 Martin Gutkowski
<webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> Wilhelm, you may find some of these links useful for picking "Volvo
> brains"
>
> http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/parts2.htm
>
> I can tell you water pump's different too *grumble*
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Martin
> #1458
> DOC UK
>
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:55:33 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <srubano@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Water pump woes
As I stated in a previous post, I used an Airtex water pump (new)
and the end casing from my old orignal waterpump fit it perfectly.
Had no problems. The version water pump was the bolt on pulley
style. I don't know why your's would not fit the new one.
Steve
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxx> wrote:
> The end casing from the original pump does not fit the new pump,
and the
> Volvo end casing we bought for the new pump has the output port on
the
> wrong side - why they made two versions is beyond me -
operationally
> it'd be identical.
>
> The picture was to show that the shape of the casing and how the
> position of the mounts is wrong.
>
> I take it you guys've never come across this problem before?
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Martin
> #1458
>
> Walter Coe wrote:
>
> >Martin,
> >
> >I'm getting ready to do the same thing you are with your water
pump. I've
> >got one of Darryl's pulleys also. I'm having trouble seeing what
is wrong
> >by your picture. I suppose you aren't showing the problem piece
in the
> >photo. Anyway, is it possible to reuse the end casing from the
OEM pump?
> >
> >Walt Tampa, FL
> >
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:52:31 EST
From: njp548@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Water pump and related
In a message dated 3/13/02 11:45:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, dherv10@xxxxxxx
writes:
<< We also
stock and sell P.J. Grady's new billit aluminum pully. >>
How can you stock a part when you don't know who makes it? The billet
aluminum bolt-on pulleys are made by Darryl Tinnerstet. The original
Specialty Automotive DeLorean parts distributor. Web address:
www.delorean-parts.com
Later,
Nick Pitello
1852
15914
<A HREF="" href="Http://members.aol.com/njp548">Http://members.aol.com/njp548">Http://members.aol.com/njp548</A>
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:01:16 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Struts
Paul, you need to join our mailing list - go to the contents page at www.delorean.co.uk
and click on the link
I think they're ALMOST the same off a ford Escort, but I may be imagining things.
Best Wishes
Martin
#1458
DOC UK
paulus260572 wrote:
> hello All.
>
> Can anyone in the uk tell me what other cars has the rear gas struts
> for the D?
> The louvre struts?
>
> Cheers Paul.
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:05:18 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Water pump woes
I may have an answer to this issue. It appears the later version of the B28 engine used
from 1982 onwards in the Volvo 760. This had the altered water pump. We knwo this because
the guy at the parts place I was using went and found the " h " shaped pipe that it hooks
up to, and it was the same as the DeLorean! (is port on the left). This pipe was off a
Volvo 260 circa 1979.
Anyway, it appears the pump from the DeLorean cross-references incorrectly over here to
the later pump with the ouput port on the wrong side
Airtex is an american manufacturer of european parts - we can't get that brand over here.
Ironic really.
Thanks guys
Martin
#1458
dmcman82 wrote:
> As I stated in a previous post, I used an Airtex water pump (new)
> and the end casing from my old orignal waterpump fit it perfectly.
> Had no problems. The version water pump was the bolt on pulley
> style. I don't know why your's would not fit the new one.
>
> Steve
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:20:16 EST
From: Senatorpack@xxxxxx
Subject: Porsche engines in a DeLorean...American subculture
Well said Matt. I'm still waiting for someone to install a rear seat, and
diesel engine.
The law of diminishing returns...the classic or customized car. The cost
to perform a total restoration Vs the cost to swap this and that part, and
reengineer a car is a tough choice to make. Is either way the correct way?
Who knows?
Concepts Vs Limitations
The current "Fast & the Furious" trend or fad, is to create a highly
individualistic, distinctive car out of a mass marketed, high volume model
from one of the global manufactures. These car owners strive for perfection.
These "customizes" are fulfilling their needs, by creating their own personal
view & belief of what car should or shouldn't be. There are many magazines,
aftermarket parts companies, fashions, music, movies, books, an entire
subculture built on customizing cars. (The DeLorean history buffs will
recognize that history is again repeating itself, as this subculture was his
inspiration during the 1950s and swinging 1960s)
When a car is designed the possibilities & concepts are put on paper.
Various sketches and ideas are conceptualized. However, when the car is
actually engineered and final decisions are made, the limitations of the car,
such as top speed, handling, acceleration, braking, etc., etc., come to
fruition. Ideas have to wait, concepts put on hold, limits for a myriad of
reasons are established.
The difference between the possibilities & concepts of a new car, and the
actual limitations that technology, money, time, can fulfill brings fourth
competition. The competition from other manufactures to produce a car that
is faster, better handling, has better safety features, etc., etc. Sure the
engineers that designed the DeLorean wanted the DMC-12 to out pace a 911, out
handle a Ferrari, have the competitive pedigree of a Mercedes Benz. You know
the story, Viper Vs Corvette, 911 Vs NSX, etc., etc.
DeLorean Vs the competition
The final result of those engineering limitations and concepts is what
the consumer is going to purchase and enjoy...or purchase and regret. There
were many that praised the DMC for everything it was, and there were many who
criticized the car for everything it should have been or criticized it for
everything it could be. Perfection is and always has been elusive.
However, disappointment & dissatisfaction can inspire someone to
accomplish the unthinkable, the unreachable, or unobtainable. As the old
adage "to build a better mouse trap." I guess this is what inspired JZD when
he created the DMC.
Many competing exotic car manufactures have built or are currently
offering a better mouse trap, with the luxury, performance, styling, agility,
pedigree, etc., etc. In 1981 to purchase a car that was faster, handled
better, etc., than the DeLorean, you didn't have to look far. There were
plenty of cars during the DeLoreans development period that were faster,
better handling, "burned rubber at every stop light" sounded better, had
better materials, etc., etc.
Many buyers looked at a DeLorean, test drove it, decided if it was
suitable for their needs and made a purchasing decision. If their
performance, rear seat, or perception needs were not met, they looked at
different models from different manufactures. If the buyer wanted a car with
a rear seat, or a car with a diesel engine, they purchased a car with those
attributes. Maserati, Ferrari, Porsche, etc., anticipated the demand of the
market and offered a car less expensive than their flagship models,
Bora/Merak, Ferrari 308s with Fiberglass bodies, and the less expensive
Porsche 944.
Rocket Science
For the money that you would spend after all is said & done, customizing
and personalizing, you will triple or quadruple the cost of a very nice
DeLorean...and it is still a DeLorean.
Yes,...the DeLorean is highly recognizable since it was in Back to the
Future, however when someone drives "Magnum Pi's car" the same response is
heard.
There are plenty of faster cars, with more pedigree, class, better
handling, in the $25-$30,000 range such as the NSX, 911, Esprit, Merak or
Ferrari.
Besides, those old cars from the 40s, 50s, & 60s that were kept original
or restored to factory original condition are worth more today that when new.
Spend your money wisely, as you can buy another marque that fulfills your
needs.
Best Wishes,
Michael
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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:03:48 -0000
From: "stevepeck1" <stevepeck1@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Interior Mirrors - - Where the H#@?
First, I am no quitter. When faced with the prospect of say paying
$200 for a bloody interior mirror, I'll go to great lengths...
I visited a rather complete junkyard, loaded with 80's cars from all
makes. There are simply NO mirrors like the DMC's. I found that an
early 80's BMW 320i and an 86? Toyota Cressida mirrors are almost
exactly the same dimensions and have the pivot-ball back, but I
learned that if you press too hard on the back of the mirror to get
the DMC's mounting ball into it, you end up with 7 (14) years bad
luck.
With that unfortunate prospect in my future, I bow humbly to you
there and ask who has a decent used mirror for sale?
Martin, our resident Brit says that there are plenty in England, but
sadly I am in Charleston, SC... Send me a dozen, buddy and I'll make
us some real loot selling them for Half what others sell them for...
Seriously, ideas anyone?
-Steve #3302
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:14:17 EST
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
Subject: Axle thunking-FIXED
Hello,
I brought my axles to a CV/axle specialty shop as I don't know what I am
doing half the time. The shop has worked on DeLorean axles before so I
trusted him.
When I removed the axles both of the inner CV's slid right off of the
axle...not good. I let him go at the axles and it turns out that the clips
that hold the CV joints to the axles slid off. He said that the groove the
clips sit in were not deep enough and was probably a defect from the factory.
He put in a deeper groove and a small weld to make sure it wouldn't happen
again. I told him to go ahead and rebuild them as long as they were off.
($225 with new boots while I waited:))
I put them back on the car and no thunking at all!!!! I was always
paranoid about that sound...If any of you have a clunking coming from the
rear of the car that you can't figure out this may be a possibility. My car
only has 20k orig. miles and it happened to me.
Thank you all
David,
I will be gone the next 12 days so e-mail me when I return if you have any que
stions.
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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:35:27 -0000
From: "dherv10" <dherv10@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Water pump and related
Nick,
Naturally I don't stock the Volvo 4 bolt pully. I don't have to
because I stock and sell Rob's aluminum pulley which is press on if I
need to. There are and I have plenty of Delorean water pumps at a
reasonable price and I can normally take off the old pulley and put
it on the new or rebuilt pump. I have also turned the factory
original pully in heavier steel that you can press on at home with
out special equiptment. It's easy. There wasn't just that much
demand.I think the volvo pulley he is turning is a good looking pully
if you want to convert over to a non original set up. Your choice.
Sorry if I gave you or anyone the wrong impression.
John hervey
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, njp548@xxxx wrote:
> In a message dated 3/13/02 11:45:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dherv10@xxxx
> writes:
>
> << We also
> stock and sell P.J. Grady's new billit aluminum pully. >>
>
> How can you stock a part when you don't know who makes it? The
billet
> aluminum bolt-on pulleys are made by Darryl Tinnerstet.
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:44:52 -0800
From: "Adam Price" <acprice1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Over heat protector questions.
I am trying to make my own overheat protector and I was just wondering if
copper is okay to use? All I can find are copper fittings, so will the
copper react with the aluminum or the antifreeze in a harmful way?
What type of fittings are sold with the overheat protector kits?
Thanks,
Adam
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:05:04 EST
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Water pump woes
Martin, Yes, I have come accross three different pumps that will fit the
Delorean. it's all about knowing which one will work. Most over the counter
people don't know. Even Volvo, will and can give you different pumps if you
don't know the right one to ask for and Volvo is going up on the price all
the time on them.
John hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/engine.shtml
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:51:57 -0800
From: "Darryl Tinnerstet" <darryl@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: water pump woes
Martin - The pump you got is obviously not the correct one. You will also note that the two hose outlets that lead to the heads are not in a straight line as on the old one. The Volvo-style pumps I have used with my bolt-on pulleys are BAP-Geon #28-09307; Beck/Arnley #131-1851; and CSK #55-9146. They include the rear cover gasket but not the cover. All are readily available on this side of the pond. I could ship you one if necessary, but probably not in time for this weekend. Please advise if interested.
Darryl Tinnerstet
Specialty Automotive
McCleary, WA
www.delorean-parts.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:06:06 -0000
From: "stevepeck1" <stevepeck1@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Headlight switch, Exterior mirror switch fixes.
This list has givem me THOUSANDS of dollars of great advice in the
four weeks I have owned my DMC. I'd like to throw a little back, for
what this may be worth to you. Fair warning: I make up words where
I don't know their names...
My Headlight switch was misbehaving. It took some 6-8 pokes to
finally engage. As a fix, I took the switch apart (very simple)
Cleaned and tightened the electrical connections and added
a "friction strip" between the black casing and the steel "click
controller" bar.
The bar it turned out was flopping around and dropping out of its
channel.
The friction strip I used was simply a 1" by 3/8" stip of stiff paper
folded in thirds.
Switch works like new. Maybe better. good luck with yours.
My Exterior Mirror switch was also misbehaving.
The fix for it it turned out was to straighten the metal parts that
were a bit bent.
The control "joystick" pulls off with a good yank, and the casing
opens by cutting off the plastic melt-downs with a razor blade. Pull
the switch apart, being careful not to let springs and ball bearings
fly everywhere. You should not need to adjust anything on the
joystick side at all. Just put back the bearings onto the springs
and back onto the "quattropus" and set it aside. The three dumbell-
looking parts go onto springs on the switch. I found that a dab of
grease also acts like glue to hold lightweight things where they
belong.
Clean the contact surfaces of everything with dull sandpaper,steel
wool or a pencil eraser! The "disk" is the critical component. Mine
was bent in several ways. You will want to straighten things so that
everything is parallel. You'll understand once you're in there.
Assembly is simple. You will need to re-seal the casing by using a
electronics-type soldering iron. If you use a plumbing-type one
you'll melt everything! Just touch it to each of the places where
you sliced off the plastic "melt-downs" and you can also "weld" the
back to the casing by sliding the soldering iron along the seam.
Works like new...
My dash dimmer switch was also not working. Disassembly and a dab of
epoxy and solder and it now works OK... Not perfect...
Good luck
-Steve #3302
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