To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderator@xxxxxxxxxxx
To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. AUTO transmission life...
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
2. Attn: Rodney Anderson
From: Mark Noeltner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
3. Re: No first gear
From: Christian Williams <delorean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
4. Re: Robin Hood Cars/DMC Leather
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
5. Re: Cameron's Airbox & DOC update
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
6. Re: Cameron's Airbox & DOC update
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
7. Re: No first gear
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud@xxxxxxxxx>
8. Pivot Bolts
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
9. deloreans magazine
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
10. Stainless Cleaner
From: "Jason Rowe" <rowejj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
11. fuel pressure tester
From: Noah <sitz@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
12. Re: Customizing a DeLorean
From: Darkstar <darkstarmedia@xxxxxxxxx>
13. Re: deloreans magazine
From: "psychopowerrr" <PsychoPower@xxxxxxxxxxx>
14. Re: Pivot Bolts
From: "dmcman82" <srubano@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
15. window frame/channel
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
16. Re: Pivot Bolts
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
17. RE: Re: deloreans magazine
From: "Michael Babb" <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
18. antenna wiring
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
19. MY tight steering problem!
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
20. Re: fuel pressure tester
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
21. Re: antenna wiring
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:26:51 EST
From: Delorean17@xxxxxxx
Subject: AUTO transmission life...
Hi,
My trans gov was replaced at 16k miles as it started to act funny. I
replaced it and drove it 5k miles since and it has performed perfectly. I
was wondering about the failure rates of the auto transmission. I take care
of it and have added several magnets inside of the pan for safety. Someone
told me I would be lucky to hit 50k miles without rebuilding it. Is this
true or just another rumor.
I was planning on purchasing amsoil 100% synthetic auto-trans fluid. It is
$9/quart but from what I have heard it is worth it. I will bring it to a
mechanic and have the system totally flushed and replaced with synthetic. Is
there any reason I shouldnt put this in my car? I want the car to treat me
well on the way to Memphis and don't want the original fluid(sat 16yrs,
before fuel syst rebuilt this summer) in there for such a long trip. (700
miles each way)
Thanks
David
#6286-IN2TIME
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:40:35 -0700
From: Mark Noeltner <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Attn: Rodney Anderson
If Rodney Anderson of Emerald Hills, CA is on the list, please contact me.
I've been trying to reply to your e-mail but the replies have been
bouncing. If you have another e-mail address please send it, or you can
call me at (801) 352-2743.
Thanks!
Mark Noeltner
VIN 6820
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:53:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Williams <delorean@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: No first gear
And while we're on the subject of weird things that happen with gears,
would anyone care to venture a guess as to why 3rd is a little rough to
shift into? My master, slave, and clutch line are all fine. I can hear a
*CHUCK* sort of sound when I shift into 3rd - not gear grinding. The sound
seems to come from right below the shifter.
-Christian
On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Ryan McCaffrey wrote:
> Dear List,
>
> I took my car in to our usually dependable shop yesterday and it came back
> with a problem that wasn’t there when I left it: I can’t shift into first.
> Every other gear is perfectly fine, but no first. Well, actually, I can get
> first, but only after working through the other gears for a couple of
> minutes and eventually getting lucky and getting into first. The only thing
> they installed that was transmission-related were transmission mounts (and
> yes, both were NOS parts from DMC Houston).
>
> I left the car there for the weekend and I’m hoping you guys can come up
> with some suggestions for me to give them on Monday in case they have any
> trouble locating the problem.
>
> A quick search of the archives turned up master cylinder problems, fifth
> gear grinds, but no first gear problems. And so I look to my fellow owners…
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ryan McCaffrey
> #10014
> Arizona DeLorean Club
>
> P.S. As I said, it worked fine when I took it in there, but for the record:
> slave and master cylinders are a year old and an upgraded clutch line is
> installed.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:14:03 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Robin Hood Cars/DMC Leather
Or the new option Paul Salsbury has arranged (though it is not official as yet) is to get the seats re-skinned at the place who originally skinned them the first time around. Paul has had his seats done, and I'm next in the queue :-)
They also said some of the really early cars had full leather, hand-stitched interiors. Since my dash, centre console and binnacle are in such poor shape, I'm tempted....
Martin
#1458
Stian Birkeland wrote:
> For those of you who attended Eurofest, the original Bridge of Weir leather seat covers were purchased by DOC UK from Robin Hood Cars which originally had bought them from DMC Ltd. when they went bankrupt. It seems like Robin Hood Cars purchased "a lot" of DeLorean seat covers which could then be used in their car (which is based on the Lotus 7 or Caterham). I think they use the leather for trimming the interior on their car. From what I know, Robin Hood cars where reluctant to sell any, and sold only "some" of their stock to DOC UK. Which means there are still original seat covers left, but expect to pay a lot to get the rest from them.
>
> Best wishes
> Stian Birkeland
> Norway
>
> VIN # 06759
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:17:01 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Cameron's Airbox & DOC update
...and a prize can go to the first person to correctly identify what is held in the
plastic bag to the left of the A/C compressor :-)
Martin
#1458
jamesrguk wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just noticed that Martin had uploaded some recent pickies on to the
> DeLorean Owners Club Website, there is a pic of the air filter
> installed on my car.
>
> http://www.delorean.co.uk/pictures/DCP02385.JPG
>
> There are some onther interesting pictures as well as an excellent
> example of how to install a fuel baffel ;-)
>
> James RG
> England
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:58:35 EST
From: dherv10@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Cameron's Airbox & DOC update
Spare Key identification plate ?????, I have one of those plastic bags
towards the back of the air compressor and also have an identification plate
for the key on the windsheild.
John
http://www.specialtauto.com/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:47:58 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <knut.s.grimsrud@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: No first gear
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "Ryan McCaffrey" <ryanjm@xxxx> wrote:
>... I can't shift into first. Every other gear is perfectly
> fine, but no first. ... The only thing they installed that
> was transmission-related were transmission mounts
It sounds to me like you just need to adjust the shifter linkage.
Your shift pattern is likely a little too close to the driver's side.
Shifting the pattern towards the passenger side by about one turn on
the linkage adjustment is probably about all it would take for the
sifter to slip through the gate cleanly.
The likely reason this occurred is that with your new transmission
mounts, your tranny is positioned slightly differently relative to
your shifter and your lingkage needs to be adjusted accordingly.
Knut
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:41:58 -0000
From: "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Pivot Bolts
Hi all
I am trying to remove my rear hub carrier and have come across a small hurdle, the Pivot bolts..
I have taken the nuts off the end of the pivot bolts, however they just won't come out. Does the Split spacer (100481) grip them in any way?
Is it just a case of hitting them hard with a hammer to get them out?
Also is there an easy way of un-doing the Bolts between the inner and outer drive shafts?
Cheers
Paul
#6463
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 12:18:45 +0000
From: Les Huckins <jhuckins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: deloreans magazine
James, been a long time since the 1st issue, when is the next one due?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:34:50 -0800
From: "Jason Rowe" <rowejj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Stainless Cleaner
Hello all,
One day last week I was checking out Meguiars web site to see
what all the products were that they have. I decided to email them and ask them
if the had anything non-abrasive that would shine up the stainless steel skin of a
DeLorean. Heres the reply I got back. Has anyone ever tried this stuff? Any opinions
on it? I'm scared of anything that has the word abrasive in it reguardless of how
"micro" it is.
Jason #5903
Subject: RE: Stainless Cleaner
I recommend trying our Gold Class Metal Restorer. This product is unique in the fact that it contains micro-abrasives which are designed to remove contaminants without scratching your finish. It's also designed in a liquid form which makes it easy to use. This product will clean, shine, and protect any bare metal surface including stainless steel. You should be able to find this product at most Pep boys and Target store's.
Thank you,
T.J. Harmon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:54:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah <sitz@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: fuel pressure tester
<question value="newbie">
OK, so I have the NAPA fuel pressure tester for Bosch K-Jetronic systems
hooked up to my fuel system. Except jumping the RPM relay only shows like
20 PSI, and since the car runs fine, I'm assuming I'm being a tardmonkey.
The connection currently runs:
Fuel distributor -> gauge (balljoint side) -> pressure regulator
although I also tried it reversed, and with the little lever on the gauge
in both positions.
All connections between the car and the gauge are handled using adapters
which have no O-rings, which matches the (rather sparse) sheet that came
with the gauge. I let the fuel pump run for 30-60 seconds or so, and never
break 20 PSI. Suggestions? Comments? Canned laughter?
I'm also on AIM <sitzkrieg9> today, in case one of you clueful types is
around. Thanks. :)
Noah
#2867
Impossible, sir. It's in Johnson's underwear.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:34:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Darkstar <darkstarmedia@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Customizing a DeLorean
To comment on this, i will say that I can not know if
i can do any thing if i have no base numbers for flow
data, volume data, and cam profiles. Granted I know i
don't have the experience that the guys that build
nascar engines but i am not aiming for the same goal.
nascar engines are built loose and with extremely high
end stuff which is where a good percentage of cost is.
not that i am saying that i could do it, nascar
engine builders are vary much worth what they make. I
am only trying to get the engine to put out more by
using simple concepts that have been used for a long
time. I am aiming for the 200 mark but i will see
what i can do which what i got. I have a full machine
shop and a machinists with almost 40Years of engine
work under his belt to help and a shop that will grind
cams to spec for me. there will be some trial and
error but we'll see. I hope to find local D owners
that i can use as test beds. also those that can get
me parts at a good price will get in on the parts. i
have discussed this with some that have contacted me
off-list but we'll see.
Darkstar
ps just to counter those that will come up with the
"he doesn't even use his real name" argument my name
is Richard but most online call me Darkstar or DKS
--- B Benson <delornut@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I'm not trying to put anyone down here and I must
> admit nothing in the post
> below indicates there isn't the talent to accomplish
> what's said
> there but I feel compelled to comment because I
> guess it makes it sound too
> easy. I had the chance, a while back, to spend a
> weekend with Mark Vieau
> whose shop builds Winston Cup and Bush National
> engines for several NASCAR
> teams, and Larry Boeker who builds Pro Stock drag
> engines for Reher
> Morrison. One question I asked was how they justify
> a $125,000 price tag for
> one of their engines. Larry invited me to visit his
> shop's back room
> sometime to see the store house of parts used in
> trying to find just the
> right combination. These guys have thousands of
> hours and decades of
> experience in learning the particular
> characteristics of the various
> engines they work with. Even so there is still trial
> and error involved in
> adapting them to certain race track conditions. One
> example is airflow
> though the engine's intake. Sometimes more is not
> better because velocity
> plays an equally important role in engine
> performance. Changing the profile
> of a camshaft requires, among other things, knowing
> how much valve overlap
> is needed to maintain the best velocity of the
> incoming air without loosing
> some though the exhaust ports. How much lift works
> for a particular engine
> and what RPM range are you looking to gain power in.
> Improving one area of
> the engines range may reduce power or overall
> performance in another. "The
> folks in Texas", as they were called below, and
> others like Rob Grady and Don Steger have years of
> experience with the DeLorean and even so I'm sure
> they have many hours in testing and experimenting
> before they have something they're comfortable with
> to offer their customers. I always have to question
> when anyone claims to do this without that
> experience and facility. When I hear folks claim
> they're going to do this or that without presenting
> their credentials I get really skeptical. As I said,
> many of the posts like this don't indicate a lack of
> experiance but nether do they present it. If you
> take a shot at someone by stating that you'll do
> something better then give us something that can
> substatiate that claim.
>
> Bruce Benson
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:46:30 -0000
From: "psychopowerrr" <PsychoPower@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: deloreans magazine
Hi, I'm just wondering how does one sign up for the Delorean
Magazines? Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:08:35 -0000
From: "dmcman82" <srubano@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Pivot Bolts
If you hammer them out make sure you put the Nuts on them partially,
enough that the end of the bolt and the flat surface of the nut are
flush. This will prevent you from ruining the threads on the bolt
when you tap it out with the hammer.
Steve
--- In dmcnews@xxxx, "Paul Salsbury" <paul.salsbury@xxxx> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I am trying to remove my rear hub carrier and have come across a
small hurdle, the Pivot bolts..
>
> I have taken the nuts off the end of the pivot bolts, however they
just won't come out. Does the Split spacer (100481) grip them in any
way?
>
> Is it just a case of hitting them hard with a hammer to get them
out?
>
> Also is there an easy way of un-doing the Bolts between the inner
and outer drive shafts?
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> #6463
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:19:05 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
Subject: window frame/channel
My window frame came partially unglued, so I took it all out and glued it
back in using black silicone RTV. Then it just so happened that I had the
opportunity to look at someone else's DeLorean today and saw that his window
channels were installed quite differently. The difference with his is that
there is an additional trim piece that centers the channel on the fixed
glass. The resulting look is a beveled piece of rubber between the black
metal and the glass instead of having the extra space filled with sloppy
glue like my car had from its previous owner.
So my question to the list: Did my car leave the factor without this extra
trim piece or did someone remove it? Both of my windows are the same -- no
rubber trim. I tried finding a part number for it, but it isn't shown. The
frame is 105942 and is called DROP GLA DIV CHAN RH. There is the fuzz seal
that the window rolls up into which is 101726 called GLASS RUN CHANNEL.
That is all fine, but what I am missing is an extra piece that fits on the
top of the channel between it and the fixed glass. My car is VIN 03633 and
the car with the extra trim is VIN 7046.
Without the extra trim, the window frame is a little narrower (blocks less
vision). But having the trim gives it more of a finished look. Is this
item available from any of the vendors?
Thanks,
Walt Tampa, FL
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:31:53 -0500
From: "Walter Coe" <Whalt@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Pivot Bolts
> I have taken the nuts off the end of the pivot bolts, however they just
won't come out. Does the Split spacer (100481) grip them in any way?
No. I had to remove the bottom pivot bolts when I replaced my shock
absorbers. My experience was that the weight of the assembly hanging tended
to put sheer force on these bolts which made them harder to get out. I
ended up putting a floor jack under the hub carrier to left it up enough to
relieve the tension. Then to put things back together I needed the jack
again to get the holes to line up.
Walt Tampa, FL
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:24:26 -0500
From: "Michael Babb" <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Re: deloreans magazine
Check out www.deloreans.com - there are directions on that site!
MICHAEL C. BABB
-----Original Message-----
Hi, I'm just wondering how does one sign up for the Delorean
Magazines? Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:31:38 -0600
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: antenna wiring
I can't seem to find automatic antenna wiring schematics anywhere...
My problem is this-- sometimes it decides to go up, most times not. There is
no clicking or clacking.
I think the antenna and motor are fine-- I'm thinking it's the radio because
of some other issues with it (speakers and display cut out randomly or on
bumps). But I want to test the antenna and apply some power directly and/or
test power supply to it when the radio is switched on.
But.. while I was looking for antenna power diagrams I noticed there is a
realy for the antenna.
So where does the white, brown and yellow wires from the power antenna go
to? relay? where?
Thanks!
Kevin
#4687
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:39:16 EST
From: Soma576@xxxxxxx
Subject: MY tight steering problem!
hey everyone,
last year my D had an intermittent problem with the steering, and now that i
have my car running again after major service, i took it out this weekend and
the problem is back. here's the situation:
the steering wheel has some play in it, about an inch either way when you are
driving straight. that's fine. however if you need to take a turn, the
steering wheel suddenly has LOTS of resistance as you try to turn it. it
seems to have spots in it that are really bad, and it is worse turning left,
but turning right the problem is there too. it's so bad you have to turn the
wheel with both hands, both going into the turn and coming out.
my first thought was that my steering column bushing was hanging it up. my
old bushing was in really bad shape, it was all chewed up, fit loosely, it
was garbage. i got the column out and put a new bushing in, but it's not
really any better. it just doesn't rattle anymore. does anyone have any
idea what the problem is? i'm thinking it's either the universal joints on
the steering shaft or something else in the front suspension.
i'll probably bring the car in this week to my local garage for a lube job.
i'd like to see if they can figure it out if no one has any ideas....
thanks!
Andy
Soma576@xxxxxxx
1982 DeLorean DMC-12 VIN#11596
Fargo, ND 58102
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:21:04 -0500
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: fuel pressure tester
Ok, I had to pull out my book to refresh my memory. With the valve open at
50 degrees F. the Control Pressure readings should be around 23 psi., at 75
degrees F. the pressure is 35 psi. Now close the valve and the pressure
should jump to 65-77 psi. This is the System Pressure. Open the valve and
reconnect the electrical connections and start the engine and allow to warm
up As the engine warms the control pressure will move to about 51-57 psi.
Now shutoff the engine and watch the pressure, it should stabilize around
25-35 psi and stay there at least for twenty minutes.
Dave Sontos
vin 02573
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noah" <sitz@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 3:54 PM
Subject: [DML] fuel pressure tester
> <question value="newbie">
>
> OK, so I have the NAPA fuel pressure tester for Bosch K-Jetronic systems
> hooked up to my fuel system. Except jumping the RPM relay only shows like
> 20 PSI, and since the car runs fine, I'm assuming I'm being a tardmonkey.
> The connection currently runs:
>
> Fuel distributor -> gauge (balljoint side) -> pressure regulator
>
> although I also tried it reversed, and with the little lever on the gauge
> in both positions.
>
> All connections between the car and the gauge are handled using adapters
> which have no O-rings, which matches the (rather sparse) sheet that came
> with the gauge. I let the fuel pump run for 30-60 seconds or so, and never
> break 20 PSI. Suggestions? Comments? Canned laughter?
>
> I'm also on AIM <sitzkrieg9> today, in case one of you clueful types is
> around. Thanks. :)
>
> Noah
> #2867
>
> Impossible, sir. It's in Johnson's underwear.
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:06:45 -0600
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: antenna wiring
I found the relay in the relay compartment behind the driver. I always
forget about that one. I also found my problem; it was the inline fuse. The
locking ears broke off and it sprung apart. Apparently it sometimes made
contact enough to drive it up.
Go figure!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Creason" <dmc4687@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Dmc /dml" <dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: antenna wiring
> I can't seem to find automatic antenna wiring schematics anywhere...
> My problem is this-- sometimes it decides to go up, most times not. There
is
> no clicking or clacking.
>
> I think the antenna and motor are fine-- I'm thinking it's the radio
because
> of some other issues with it (speakers and display cut out randomly or on
> bumps). But I want to test the antenna and apply some power directly
and/or
> test power supply to it when the radio is switched on.
>
> But.. while I was looking for antenna power diagrams I noticed there is a
> realy for the antenna.
> So where does the white, brown and yellow wires from the power antenna go
> to? relay? where?
>
> Thanks!
> Kevin
> #4687
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Back to the Home of PROJECT VIXEN
