[DMCForum] ...was: [DML] 17000 Vins

["timnagin" <timnagin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Marc,

I found this very interesting, and since I don't post to the DML I brought
it here.  You bring up some very interesting points.  Was Tom's muffler
original to his car?  I haven't heard anything about documents being stolen
from Mike Pack.  What is the story behind this?

Greg




-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Levy [mailto:malevy_nj@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:20 PM
To: dmcnews@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [DML] 17000 Vins




In Pigeon Forge, I had the pleasure of spending time
with Tom Grippenburg and his wife.  Tom is the owner
of a 17000 vin car, 17168.  He is the original owner
of the car.

While having dinner the first night, Ken Montgomery
(the head concours judge) happen to walk by.  Being my
normal controversial self, I engaged him in a
discussion about the competition.

For those of you who may not know, I am firmly against
the idea of this competition.  For these cars to be
considered "the best of the best" based on the
criteria of being as the factory built them, the
judging manual better be accurate.  You are fooling
around with the value of someones property.

Back to my story;  When I specifically questioned Ken
about the tail pipe issue on the 17000 cars, his
response was that the 83 cars were "parts cars".  I
like Ken, but thought this was an insensitive thing to
say.

Tom Grippenburg's car is by far the best original
DeLorean I have ever seen.  It was leaked out that
Tom's car might have been first place at the Cleveland
show, but after Stephen decided to deduct the points
for his 81 tail pipes, he did not place.  James
informed Tom that if he wanted to win in any future
DMCH event, he would need to change his muffler.  Is
it a coincidence that the winning car happen to be one
restored by DMCH?  I believe this car later sold for a
lot of money, so there is a more at stake in this
competition than a trophy.

After some discussion with Tom he thinks that the
17000 cars may have been built earlier than they were
tagged.  After the cars sat, they were re tagged to be
sold as newer cars (1983).  To back this up, it has
been noted that the dashboard VIN tag is glued, and
not riveted as it is in all of the earlier cars.

A good way to verify this would be to include engine
serial numbers and frame serial numbers in the
Production Chronology, this way we would have a better
idea in what order the cars rolled off the line.  It
is a good bet that we will see the 17000 cars were
built earlier than their VIN plates say.  That would
explain why they have the older style muffler. It
would also confirm that these cars were built in the
factory and are not "parts cars".

Based on seeing the engine assemblies with mufflers at
KPAC, I assume the mufflers were attached to the
engine assembly when it was installed in the car, so
the engine serial number sequence may validate the
muffler goes with the engine.

I have discovered that this whole competition has
succeeded in alienating many original owners from
participating in events and competitions.  I have been
told that it is frustrating to be an original owner
who followed the history of the car from the beginning
to be told by a "new comer" that their car is a "parts
car".

Also, for some reason Tom thinks there were 112 cars
in the 17000 series that were build for Canada. Maybe
some of the documents stolen from Michael Pack contain
this data?

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