[DMCForum] Re: Continued: Martin's HP (Jim S)

["content22207" <brobertson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

As ever, the soul of tact... (Did I say *WOMEN* 2 years into the
workforce were overgrown *GIRLS*...).

Stick with it -- some day you'll master this decorum thing.

Your total misunderstanding of "horsepower" shows not only a lack of
historical knowledge, but the same gullable streak that marketers target. 

Follow me here: a small displacement engine produces very little
torque. Don't blame me -- I didn't invent physics. The only way to
marginally compensate is to spin the crankshaft at a tremendous speed.
Hence your 6,000 RPM example.

But

Your example engine is generating little more than noise until it
rev's up there. And if it is unable to rev up there, it may as well
not be running at all!

Thus, if your example engine (and a real world transmission -- not
Martin's imaginary geared one) is attached to a 10,000 lbs load, I
absolutely 100% guarantee one of these two outcomes will happen:
1) The engine will stall when the clutch engages normally
2) The clutch (or automatic fluid) will burn up partially engaging to
avoid stalling the engine

*THAT'S* why you don't see small cars pulling large sized campers,
UHauls, and boat trailers.
*THAT'S* why every company that's ever tried to save fuel with smaller
displacement engines in their heavy service trucks goes back to larger
ones.
*THAT'S* why small cars struggle up steep mountain grades (did anyone
catch the AP translation of a story in the French press marveling that
Lance Armstrong rode faster up the Alps than a [European] car can
drive!). 
*THAT'S* why a transfer tractor producing "only" 350-400 HP can move
more than 80,000 lbs (40 ton weight limit is government imposed, not
physics).

I can go on, but you *SHOULD* have the general idea by now.

Urp.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Jim Strickland <ihaveanaccount@xxxx>
wrote:
> Yet again, Martin is 100% correct and Bill is 100% wrong.
> 
> Horsepower measures POWER.  HENCE THE NAME HORSE*POWER*.  It is measured
> in Newton*meters/second.  A 200 horsepower engine (reached at 60,000rpm)
> generates more power than a 199 horsepower engine (reached at 1rpm).
 The
> 199 HP engine will have MUCH MORE torque, which is WORK, not power.  It
> is measured in Newton*meters.  
> 
> Bill, you can go off whining about how you are going to give up on the
> forum, but it will not change the fact that you are only right in YOUR
> OWN BRAIN.  You *COULD* be right if you started using the right
words and
> unit measurements.
> 
> The G-TECH pro measures HP *IRRESPECTIVE* of torque.  It takes the car's
> mass (entered), current acceleration and velocity to determine HP.  Mass
> = kg, acceleration = m/s^2, velocity = m/s.  Mass times acceleration
> times velocity = kg*m/s^2*m/s.  kg*m/s^2 is a newton ->
> newton*meter/second = horsepower.
> 
> SIMILARLY (for those moving a little slower)...
> Horsepower is to torque as speed is to distance.  
> You will travel a further distance going 1 mile per hour for an hour (1
> mile) than you will going 3500 miles per hour for a second (.97 miles). 
> Who is travelling faster?  The one going 3500mph, even though he didn't
> go as far!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 17:25:46 -0000 "content22207"
> <brobertson@xxxx> writes:
> > Your original post never once used the word "torque"...
> > 
> > You throw HP numbers around totally out of context (without the 
> > RPM's
> > at which the measurement is taken). Renders them totally worthless.
> > 
> > For example: which is more powerful -- a 200 HP engine or a 400 HP
> > engine? Stupid question -- without additional info, can't be 
> > determined.
> > 
> > Real world example: one of my BONE STOCK UNBUILT 200-220 HP 460's
> > versus any of the various 400+ HP small bore engines you love to 
> > wave
> > like a flag (none of which sit in YOUR own driveway I hasten to 
> > point
> > out). By the HP numbers alone your small bores ~sound~ twice as
> > powerful. But can they:
> > - Accelerate a vehicle weighing TWICE as much as a DeLorean 0-60 MPH
> > in 8-9 seconds?
> > - Move FOUR times the weight of a DeLorean (Class III) effortlessly?
> > Of course not. A small bore is going to be lucky to ever produce 
> > much
> > more than 200 ft lbs of torque, which is the true measure of power.
> > But HP numbers taken totally out of context will never indicate 
> > such.
> > 
> > BTW: Freightliner builds over the road trucks, not railroad 
> > equipment.
> > (I clearly stated such in my first reply). That's why I used them as
> > an example. Throwing unbased HP numbers around the way you do, a 
> > "500
> > HP" sports car engine should outpull their "400 HP" plants, or so 
> > the
> > uneducated might infer.
> > 
> > Did you notice your last reply inadvertently proved my point? 
> > -"Torque" is distinct and measureable, irrespective of any other
> > measurement
> > - "RPM" is distinct and measureable, irrespective of any other 
> > measurement
> > "Horsepower" is *NOT* distinctly measureable. It can *NOT* be
> > calculated without *BOTH* torque and RPM
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> > >--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Martin Gutkowski <martin@xxxx> 
> > wrote:
> > > Talking bollocks again. How fast will your damn railway engine go?
> > Speed 
> > > (rpm) and torque are interchangable in the same way that pressure 
> > and 
> > > flow are in a hydraulic system. With a limited power source, you 
> > can 
> > > trade one off against the other.
> > > 
> > > Once again, I'll be happy to have a tug of war with you as long as 
> > I
> > can 
> > > do it in a long wheelbase landrover defender TDi. (That's a 2.5 
> > > turbo-diesel with close ratio box)
> > > 
> > > http://www.dieselcentre.com/10327.htm
> > > 
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > content22207 wrote:
> > > 
> > > > At how many RPM's?
> > > >
> > > > If that little French wonder car is so powerful, Freightliner 
> > had
> > > > better be quivering in their boots.
> > > >
> > > > Uneducated layperson is going to look at your post and assume 
> > the
> > > > Venturi is more powerful than a transfer tracter producing 
> > "only" 400
> > > > HP. Yet it does so in the 1500 RPM range -- more than enough to 
> > move
> > > > 80,000 lbs of over the road freight. Can your wonder car do 
> > that?
> > > >
> > > > High rev'ing HP is chump change against bottom end HP.
> > > >
> > > > Ready for that tractor pull yet?
> > > >
> > > > Bill Robertson
> > > > #5939
> > 
> > 
> > 
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