[DMCForum] Re: Videos

["therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas@xxxxxxx>]

--- In DMCForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Marc Levy <malevy_nj@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> --- therealdmcvegas <dmcvegas@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> > So, because VideoBob does these things for profit,
> > that faults him 
> > over Tamir?
> 
> For the specific items that they don't own, Yes.

That does not matter. No one charges for file sharing, but that does 
not make it any more illegal. There is no difference here.

BTW, did people in either of this videos give them written permission 
to appear in them? (something that Ken K should consider for his own 
shows)


> > Firstly, Tamir does sell products on his site as
> > well. And like the 
> > antennas & LEDs that people complain about, I don't
> > see a 500 minute 
> > phone card for $31 dollars being a good value
> > either. And don't 
> > forget that just like how VB has a video of Pigeon
> > Forge, so does 
> > Tamir sell one of a Eurofest meet. So the "profit"
> > aspect is a moot 
> > point. DVD-R vs. VHS tape doesn't change a thing.
> 
> No, not moot.  In my response before, I pointed out
> that I was focusing on the content that they do not
> own.  Talking about the Pigeon Forge DVD, or Eurofest
> is beyond the scope of what I was talking about... 
> That is, selling content you don't own.

See previous content.


> 
> > Just because VB's 
> > distribution media is an easier/quicker format to
> > copy things to, 
> > doesn't make VB a *bad* person. Especially when both
> > do technicly 
> > sell videos, and other for-profit items on their
> > website. Individual 
> > perceptions of what someone may consider to be "over
> > priced" for both 
> > unrelated items, and videos has nothing to do with
> > the videos in 
> > question.
> 
> Again, as far as selling content you don't own "over
> priced" was not mentioned.   I tossed that in as part
> of the discussion because you were bringing up
> unrelated reasons as to why one would "pick on" video
> Bob..  Bob has taken lots of heat for the items he
> sells, and the markup on them...  But so many people
> forgot about the stuff he was selling on ebay a year
> ago which he copied from Don Steiger.  Don gives it
> away for free, Bob puts it in a copy machine and sells
> it on Ebay.

If someone is willing to pay for it, that's no problem. And if it's 
that one tech manual that I'm thinking of, this is like Apple vs. M$ 
vs. Xerox. DMC 1981 wrote that manual, DMC-GG pasted their logo over 
it to take credit for said material, and VB just happens to be 
selling it. Technicly, no one here is right. But out of curiousity, 
does this mean that DMCH & P.J. Grady are morally wrong as well for 
selling reproduction workshop manuals?


> 
> > The difference between Video Bob, and Tamir is their
> > distribution 
> > means. Neither of them own the rights to these
> > videos in question. 
> > Just as you can say that VB is selling DVDs
> > containing material that 
> > he does not own, so could you argue that Tamir is
> > using that same 
> > material for profit on his website. Except for
> > instead of selling 
> > DVDs that directly contain it, he is using these
> > free clips to 
> > attract people to his website, in an effort to drive
> > sales of 
> > products in his online store.
> 
> Then why is it I had no idea Tamir was selling
> anything?  I spend lots of time on his web site, and
> had no idea anything was even for sale!

Pffft! How should I know? The content of a site vs. it's navigation 
are totally seperate items. Just because you didn't find it, doesn't 
mean that it's not there.


> 
> > Otherwise, I don't see what VideoBob is doing wrong
> > with these 
> > videos. You pay a bit more, and end up getting full
> > clips, available 
> > for viewing on a full TV screen, instead of a
> > RealPlayer window. So 
> > to me, the price he's asking for these videos is
> > worth it. But more 
> > importantly, it's just that you'd be paying VB to do
> > the footwork in 
> > preparing everything for a DVD, that you can keep.
> 
> You can buy a copy of "Revenge of the Sith" in China
> town today for $5..  Based on your discussion above,
> this is OK because if you know where to look you can
> get it for FREE...  I say the people distributing it
> for free are wrong, the people selling it are 100X
> worse.

That's not what I said at all. But there is a distinct difference 
here between a Star Wars, and this DeLorean material in question. And 
we'll answer that next...


> 
> > So that's worth it 
> > to me. I don't see a difference in what they're
> > doing at all. Just 
> > because you don't charge for something, doesn't mean
> > that circumvents 
> > the nessesity of gaining the proper owner's
> > permission for said 
> > material.
> 
> Legally, yes...  Morally, I disagree.

What's there to morally disagree about? They are *technicly guilty* 
of the same exact thing. It's just that VB charges for the luxury of 
distributing this info via a DVD.

Morals are complete variables, and should not be used to define the 
true definetion of what is specificly right or wrong. You can consult 
them in the decision making process, but you can't use them as a 
final guideline.

But if you want to talk morals, we can. VB charges for the 
distribution of the materials, and not the materials themselves. We 
have established that. However, there is a distinct difference 
between a product for strict commercial entertainment purposes, and 
material that contributes to knowlege and education. I mean, should 
book printers carry the same stigma that Video Bob seems to have 
garnished, simply because they charge for the books containing the 
works of William Shakespear? No, they didn't write the material, but 
they are charging to distribute it.

In our time and age, the freedom of knowlege is crucial to our very 
survival. McGraw-Hill now enforces "Newspeak" in the textbooks that 
our children read. Teachers selectivly choose whate material they are 
allowed to learn, and our own news sources choose not to diligently 
verify their information. And retract it when it becomes unpopular 
speach.

As a fellow DeLorean owner who has had more than his fair share of 
akward comments, and misinformation directed at him. To see the 
ignorance about our cars that is circling around out there, I believe 
that you too should be supporting the free flow of knowlege (not 
entertainment) to anyone who wants it. And not stop those who wish to 
provide it. If you think VB is wrong for charging for this material, 
even if it is simply for the services that he provides in delivering 
it, simply because Tamir doesn't charge to view partial, grainly 
video clips, then do the exact same thing he does. I want you to 
deliver the same product, and ship out those DVDs, and not charge for 
them. That would of course by this logic justify everything, 
according to this logic.

-Robert

---

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